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Pullup Entertainment CEO Geoffroy Sardin on…
- Investing in niche games
- Live service opportunities
- Indie and AA growth
The company behind Space Marine 2 is working on 50 games, and none of them are ‘AAA’
Pullup Entertainment has an internal mantra: “We do not design and produce games for everyone. We design and produce games for someone.”
If that rings a feint bell, it because you’re clearly avid readers of The Game Business. Back in April, we spoke to the CEO of Arrowhead Games and the developer has a similar moto: “A game for everyone is a game for no one”.
And both Pullup and Arrowhead have one other thing in common: They both released a smash hit video game last year. Pullup released Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2, which now boasts over seven million players. Meanwhile, Arrowhead is the team behind Helldivers 2, which brought in 15 million players during 2024.
As a result, Pullup has delivered very strong financial results. Its latest Q1 numbers saw its revenue jump 132% over the previous year.
“We remain true to what we believe in: uncompromising gameplay,” explains Pullup CEO Geoffroy Sardin. This means prioritizing the gaming experience itself on mechanics, interaction, fluidity, fun and the depth of actions offered to the player.
“The road to success for us is based on a simple idea: players are looking for niche and very targeted, impactful experiences. The core of our manifesto is we do not design and produce games for everyone. We design and produce games for someone. And when the execution is good, [it might] end up resonating with many more people.
“It’s exactly what happened with Space Marine 2. To be very frank, we didn't believe before we launched that we could hit seven million unique players. It was incredible for us. The word of mouth, combined with the perfect execution done by our partner Saber Interactive, meant we managed to expand the audience from the passionate Warhammer people, to people who can enjoy all the features of Space Marine 2.”
“The road to success for us is based on a simple idea: players are looking for niche and very targeted, impactful experiences”
This concept is the connective thread that links all of Pullup’s various, eclectic divisions together.
Those divisions include Focus Entertainment, the publishing company behind Space Marine 2 and A Plague’s Tale. Then there’s Dotemu, the retro specialist famous for remasters, remakes and retro-inspired games, including the likes of Streets of Rage 4 and the upcoming Marvel Cosmic Invasion.
And finally, there are its five internal studios, which include BlackMill Games, which builds historical WW1 shooters, and Train Simulator developer Dovetail Games.
“What unites them is their focus on highly targeted audiences who seek uncompromising gameplay and complex game mechanics,” says Sardin.
Sardin says that although sections of the industry are struggling, he feels the business is in a far healthier spot than it appears.
“We all know the last few years have been very challenging. It's all over the news. But, strip out the noise and you will be surprised by many positive realities,” he told us on today’s Show.
“First of all, the industry has not grown over the past few years, but it has stabilized at a very high level after years of impressive growth. The industry remains powerful. And it is used to having phases of stabilization before returning to growth. It is currently impacted by a past wave of over investment; I saw you’ve talked about that recently with other interviews. But this has been the case in the past and it’s recovered each time. It is going through a phase where projects with limited ROI can't find financing anymore. This is a necessary process to me. It gets the industry back on a growth trajectory.
“But there are plenty of games and publishers that are seeing very healthy performances. Pullup and Space Marine 2 are not alone in having a great year. Look at the really strong numbers achieved recently by our Frenchy friends with Clair Obscur: Expedition 33, and also Monster Hunter Wilds and Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. They all broke records.”
Sardin adds that although AAA might be challenged, the indie and AA spaces are showing signs of growth.
“There are maybe two industries within the industry. There is AAA, which is suffering from the over-investment. And also skyrocketing costs, up to $300 million maybe more… I don’t want to guess the investment behind GTA 6.
“With the AAA model there is massive investment, with long dev cycles, we’re talking about 5, 7, 8… 10 years sometimes. So, we have low agility to find the right audience, and low creativity because we’re talking about established franchises.
“But on the opposite side, with the AA or indie games, there is more agility, there is more resilience, we can control the budget, there is high creativity to differentiate ourselves, it is a faster time to market - between one to two years… This is the shift we’ve seeing in the numbers. The AA and indie markets are thriving right now.”
“We’re going through a phase where projects with limited ROI can't find financing anymore. This is a necessary process to me. It gets the industry back on a growth trajectory.”
The big advantage of targeting a niche market is it gives you a very specific audience to talk to. Sardin points to how FromSoftware approaches new projects.
“They work very closely with the community in advance, doing tonnes of beta tests, to be sure that they hit the heart of their core audience, before thinking about expanding,” he says. “It's a good mantra for us.”
He says that Dovetail Games leans on its community for Train Simulator, which is an audience that can get dissatisfied even if the wrong color tone is used on a specific train. It’s got to the point where Train Simulator players are even creating DLC for the title.
This focus on niche franchises might sound unambitious, but Pullup is investing in new areas, Sardin says. Dotemu, for instance, is releasing Absolum this year. The game is still a retro-inspired beat ‘em up (albeit with rogue-like elements), but it’s not a remaster, a remake or based on an established IP. It’s a fully original property.
“It’s a very uncompromising. And in my opinion, it’ll be the gem of this portfolio,” Sardin tells us.
The firm is also pushing into live service, although it isn’t taking aim at Fortnite or any of the big titles. Its live service efforts largely involve extra content for Train Simulator (there’s already been over 100 add-ons released for that title), plus further expansions to Space Marine 2 (ahead of the release of Space Marine 3).
“Putting in place an organisation to manage a live service is quite huge in terms of processing, organisation and skills,” Sardin acknowledges.
“So, we’ve got a veteran of the industry, who is the head of our studios, called Ahmed Boukhelifa. He was previously founder and executive producer at Ivory Tower, which created The Crew. The Crew is the quintessence of what a live service game is. It’s quite important for the group to make sure we can create traction and retain our community within our content.”
He adds: “Don't get me wrong, we won’t put live service within all the portfolio. We are choosing our battles. Today, Train Simulation is quite important in that way, and Space Marine 2.”
Alongside live service, Pullup is also eyeing a move into TV and film. And the firm has already identified A Plague Tale as an ideal project to translate into these spaces.
“It could be a very fantastic opportunity, but it's not the first priority within the group,” Sardin says. “It could be the cherry on the cake to expand the brand.”
Sardin says there are 50 games in the works across the Pullup organisation. 30 of these are based on IP from the likes of Games Workshop, Marvel and Koei Tecmo, while the rest of co-owned and owned IP. But none of them are what you would call AAA.
“We are highly selective,” he concludes. “Our games have a strong personality, that is what makes them recognisable and happening. We saw that this year with Space Marine 2. We just released a game called Roadcraft, which is a simulation game that’s receiving an amazing reception from players and more success than we anticipated. There is no comparison for this game. There is no competition. We are proposing something new. And this is exactly the path we want to pave and invest in.”
That’s it for today. We’re taking a break from our normal news show this Thursday. We will be back to normal next week! Until then, thank you for reading.
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